Posts by Indian Larry

21

Feeling down.... BIG time

by Free!! in

jw
friends

i know i don't post here often.... i just lurk around and read most of the threads daily (from my phone)....but today is one of those days that i just feel like "blah"... i dont care about anything, i realize i dont have anything, all my friends are busy or with their own set of problems... and i just dont want to bother then.. it sucks..... i just need to vent, let everything out... i really want to scream, but i cant... i wish i could run away from everything and just start fresh, i feel like a failure and i just dont like me at all....i was so down a few days ago i was thinking about going back to the hall, because i feel so lonely... but i refused to let my depression make me do something so silly... .

thanks for even looking at this thread... i just need it to vent or i am going to explode.... :(.

Indian Larry

+1 for http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/

93

What's The Biggest Difference In Today's JWs And The Witnesses From Decades Ago?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i believe today's witnesses lack zeal, resolve, "love" of the "truth"......just to name a few things.. years ago, witnesses were excited to knock on doors and tell people they were gonna die if they didn't accept paradise.. now, when you see jws in service, they all look zombied out.. it's a slowly dying religion that will last probably forever like an ancient rotted out tree..

Indian Larry

I liken it to being on a deserted island. Decades ago....the brothers were marching up and down the sand....setting off flares and smoke signals.....staying up all night to do so because of how confident they were that they were going to see a ship on the horizon. Now....the brothers are kind of huddled in a cave.....doing what they need to do to survive......holding out hope that a ship may come some day.....putting a smile on their faces to encourage others....but in their hearts....they fear that they will never leave this cave.

Outsmarthesystem - That is a very good ananogy!

67

Read S. Hassan's Book: Do JW's really fit the cult mold?

by simon17 in

first time i got a chance to read his book, "combatting cult mind control" and was interested to see if jw's fell into the cult mold.

my opinion after carefully reading and having left the witnesses after almost 30 years is... no, they don't.

however, i would add that they wish they were but are simply too big and unwieldy to really pull it off.

Indian Larry

I too read S. Hassans first book, and based on the definition of cult in that book I would not say that the WT meets the definition of a cult. AS IT IS DEFINED IN STEVE HASSANS FIRST BOOK. I am not saying they are not a cult, I am simply saying that as that book defines the word cult they do not meet the criteria. They do meet the criteria in that book for high control group. Another thing that goes in favor of the WT not being a full blown cult would be all of the churn seen in the org. They are really busy trying to bring new publishers in the front door but just as many are walking (or kicked out) the back door. I would say most cults like the moonies for instance don't have as high of a churn rate as the WT.

Before everybody jumps on me, keep in mind I am not defending the ORG just stating an opinion. I also do agree with the person who mentioned how many lives they have ruined. That is the worse part of all, how they have torn apart families. It is sickening. I know some on this board no longer believe in God, but I still do. I believe that those at the top who are responsible for this will be called into account. At least I hope so.

89

New CO talk: Be loyal to Org. even if you get weird instructions or can prove them wrong doctrinally!

by sir82 in

jw
friends

theme was something about "loyalty to jehovah's visible organization".. i have neither the time nor inclination to summarize the whole thing, but a few points stood out:.

even if it causes you personal hardship.

example: joshua & caleb returned from spy trip to promised land with good report, but were "outvoted" by the other 10 spies.

Indian Larry

The reason groups like the "standfasters" and other who stood up to Ruthefords lies are said to have "faded and came to nothing", is because they were following RUSSELLS teachings. Russell was rabidly ANTI-ORGANIZATION. If a group was to follow the same course as the bible students then they would not be expected to grow to a 6-7 million member organization. Those who dropped away from the organization back then (and those who do today as well) have no choice if they want to be true to their heart. The organization will at times make quotes like this that seem to say that the size of the organization shows that it has God's holy spirit is directing them. That is a false assumption though. If size alone was the determining factor then I would have to say that God is giving much more holy spirit to the Catholic and Muslim faiths.

As far as how these small groups that broke away felt about organizing. Here are a couple of quotes from Russell that would shed light on their reasons for not becoming the BORG.

"Many men of many minds have favored more or less strict organizations, and so we find Christians throughout the world today organized on various lines and with more or less rigidity, and each claiming advantages for his particular denomination or system of government. This is wrong!… The tendency of the human mind is either toward anarchy on the one hand, or toward tight organization and bondage on the other. The divine arrangement, avoiding both of these extremes, marks out for the New Creation an organization simple in the extreme, and devoid of everything akin to bondage. Indeed, the injunction of the Scriptures to each individual Christian is, “Stand fast, therefore, in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.” Gal. 5:1 " Studies in the Scriptures Vol 6

"...we have pointed out continually the tendency of Christian people toward union, showing, too, that such a union is predicted in scripture; but that its results, while designed to be good, will really be bad; and this because it will be a mechanical union instead of a heart unity."--WT, Mar 1893, p. 1504

"The endeavor to compel all men to think alike on all subjects, culminated in the great apostasy and the development of the great papal system, and thereby the gospel, the one faith that Paul and the other apostles set forth, was lost - buried under the mass of uninspired decrees of popes and councils. The unity of the early church, based upon the simple gospel and bound only by love, gave place to the bondage of the church of Rome...Each new reform movement (like Protestantism) has made the failure of attempting to make a creed just large enough for its prime movers." --WT, Sep. 1893, p. 1572

Those groups stood by their conscience and did what they felt was right.

9

Have any members of the governing body accepted blood fractions?

by Indian Larry in

does anybody know if any members of the governing body and/or their wives have ever accepted blood "fractions"?.

Indian Larry

Does anybody know if any members of the governing body and/or their wives have ever accepted blood "fractions"?

66

Was The Internet The Clincher For You To Mentally Leave The Organization?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i think it was for me.. i knew a lot of the history of the bible students, russell, rutherford and the "old light".

.

once i could see all of the overwhelming evidence right in front of my eyes, there was no ignoring the reality..

Indian Larry

Yes.

25

I need a new phone......which one is better- I-phone or Droid?

by drewcoul in

jw
friends

i'm in need of a new phone.

i've had the samsung omnia for quite a while.

its a piece of crap.

Indian Larry

I vote for the iPhone. Flash is no longer an issue on the iPhone as it can now be installed on the iPhone 4, Google iPhone 4 + Flash. Also Adobe has annouced that they are no longer going to suppport flash on the mobile platform. Flash will be dead on all mobile phones in a year or so. Everything is going to HTML5.

The iPhone has SIRI which has to be the coolest feature ever. You can just tell your phone: "remind me to pick up milk and eggs when I leave work", the GPS on the phone will know when you leave work and automatically remind you. It does TONS of other cool things as well. Go to Apple.com and on the first page click on the link for the iPhone 4s video. I truly think it is the best phone out there. 8 megapixel camera, facetime, high def video recording etc. . . .

54

Growing up a Jehovah's Witness - New Video

by jwfacts in

i have put together a video - growing up a jehovah's witness 1960 -2010. it aims to show the things a witnesses would be taught as they age over those decades.

it is 15 minutes long.

this is my first attempt at a video and it took a while to work out how to use final cut, so please feel free to make suggestions if anything should be changed.

Indian Larry

Excellent video. Thank you so much for the time you spent putting that together. Thank you as well for all the work you have done on your website. I found it very helpful in coming to terms with my beliefs.

24

What is the most ironic statement you have seen in the Watchtower?

by Indian Larry in

there are so many good ones, but this has got to be near the top of the list: .

*** w56 2/1 p. 88 par.

45 cautious as serpents among wolves ***.

Indian Larry

Wow, these are all good. Let me add another one, where you have to be baptized in order to have the "unrestricted privilege of prayer"

*** w90 5/15 p. 12 par. 11 Fear Jehovah, the Hearer of Prayer ***

Everyone who really fears Jehovah is a believer who makes a dedication to God and symbolizes it by getting baptized. (Acts 8:13; 18:8) And only baptized believers have an unrestricted privilege of approaching the King Eternal in prayer.

Note: I assume Jesus had the UNRESTRICTED privilege of prayer for the 30 years he was alive before his baptism.

26

Had a Frustrating Discussion with Mom...

by tenyearsafter in

my 80 something year old mom is a die hard jw, but to her credit, she has not shunned me.

as would be expected, she is always "praying" that i return to jah and get reinstated.

is consistent...every time my wife and i see her, she always tries to steer the conversation to "how bad the world" has become.. today, she escalated the "theocratic attack" by coming out directly and asking me what i thought of world conditions.

Indian Larry

Both of my parents are 80 as well. The were both raised in the organization. Of course they worry about me constantly. I have to agree with the comments made above. At this point in your mom's life it is probably too late. If you are successful in opening her eyes to the truth about the "truth", the pain she will go through in the form of cognitive dissonence would be tremendous. In addition she would have to either spend the rest of her life "faking it" at the hall or she could also risk losing every friend she has ever had. For me that pain has been continuing for over 10 years now, I do have conversations with my parents but I don't really try to "convert" them.

My personal goal with my elderly parents is to walk a very fine line. I want them to realize that I do have valid reasons for staying away from the organization, but I don't want to ruin the little bit of time they have left. Instead I try to get across to them that Jehovah can read hearts and he will read mine as well. I would hate for them to be on their death bed and be convinsed that they will never see their son again.

It is a fine line but so far it has been working.